Author: Brittany Crockett

Welcome to the Content Machine Podcast. This is our first ever guest, cannon Johnson canon. Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Cannon and I met years ago and co starters at the Co, and since then, both of our business has grown, but I think yours has grown a little bit more than mine has.

We’re Wiley Parker homeboys.

That’s right. Way back in the day. Tell us about Jackson Fencing Company or Jackson Fencing Company. Sorry.

Put me on the spot here, man. So, in a nutshell, Kevin, we have a belief that your backyard and people spend more money. Like, the largest investment that people make in their lifetime is generally a home. And we want people to enjoy and feel safe and protected in their own space. And so what we’re trying to do, Kevin, is build fences that truly make people’s backyards and their own escape, their own vacation, their own getaway. So we build fence, I guess is the short answer to that. But we think that we build the best fence. We often say your backyard deserves the best. That’s our little tagline. So we’re building fence, but we’re taking the same to a whole another level. We’re traveling the country looking for the best methods, the best techniques, the best people, and really just not copying what the guy down the road is doing or what West Tennessee has been exposed to for years and years and years. We’re looking far and abroad and bringing in new products and all kinds of neat stuff. On the surface, it’s just a fence, right? But we don’t see it that way. We see it as something that adds value to your home, protects your family, keeps your dog in the backyard, all that kind of stuff.

What’s an example of something that you’ve brought back recently?

Man so, we call those golden nuggets. All right. So anytime we travel and we pick up information, we bring it back, and we try to not everything fits. It’s not like, hey, we find the circle, let’s put in the circle hole, we get, right? So we got to figure out how to make things fit into what we’re doing, or we have to do a lot of work behind the scenes that make it fit. But one of the big things that we’ve recently brought back more than once, like, recently, meaning, like, the last three times that I’ve left town to go talk to defense people, this keeps getting brought up. It’s like, dan, this is a clue. The FBI calls that a clue. People keep telling you it’s a clue. So driving post and so what’s going on, Kevin, is we’re digging holes in people’s yards, and digging holes is not fun. How many holes you’ve ever done?

But it’s not fun.

It’s the hardest thing we do. Even with equipment, it’s the hardest thing we do, and we call it owning your hole, because we got to dig the perfect hole. We take pride on digging the deepest, the widest, and not just the absolute biggest hole, but the perfect hole. It’s exactly the size that it’s supposed to be and it’s exactly where it’s supposed to be. We don’t have to shave it, we don’t have to move it. We dig it and bam. We know that post is get it.

Right the first time.

That’s right. We take pride in trying to do that, but even doing that is hard and it’s exhausting. So the newest thing that’s coming to the fence industry and that we’re planning on bringing it to the West Tennessee industry is driving fence post. And so we’re hoping the next two years we stop digging hose, like using.

Almost like a hammer and smashing the.

Post into the ground, pounding, guess what? We tally.

Interesting. Okay, well, and you are clearly passionate about the fence and we’ll talk more about that, but how did you get started in the fence business?

Man, this is a great story. So I work for Lowe’s Home Improvement and I like to say Lowe’s Home Improvement because that’s what it is. A lot of people just say Lowe’s. I’m like, no, the company presidents and the board, they caught it. Home improvements.

That’s. What?

It’s Lowe’s home improvement. So there we began to build fence through Lowe’s, the company back in 2011. And I worked for Lowe’s from 2006 to 2015. And in that time frame, I became an assistant manager of the stores. And in 2011, Loew said, hey, we want to build fences. It wasn’t just fences. It was roofs and windows and all this other stuff.

All the people they sell stuff to.

Yeah, exactly. Yes. And so we want to compete with all those people, basically. And who are we going to find to help us compete? Well, we’re going to find the people that are already doing business with us. And it was really weird, kind of. But Lowe’s took on this general contract model of will it, sell it and then we’ll find somebody else to install it. And through that process, I kind of became the liaison between the store, the customer, the installed sales team, all the different people. And what I really learned is they say, hey, can we want you to be the liaison? That’s the go between the salesperson, the install sales team and the customer. And the installer. Well, liaison evidently is just a fancy word for like, hey, we want to put you out in the middle where all the bullets are flying because the salesperson is going to screw up and the customer is going to be mad and you’re going to be right there between the shots. And then the install sales office is going to miss schedule and the installer is going to get upset or he’s not going to show up when he said he was and they’re going to be right between the two of those that gun fight.

And so after about four years of being in between gunfights. That’s a liaison, evidently. I was like, I think I can do better. And honestly, I’m not a contractor by trade. I’m not a builder by trade. I’m not a handyman or nothing like that. And so when I looked at all these things that we were doing at Lowe’s, we built decks, roofs, windows, and fences. I’m going to say, Kevin, that I didn’t know. I don’t know what’s really going on between the wall. So do I want to start a window company? Not really, because I can see the outside of the wall and the inside of the wall, but I’m still not really sure what’s going on between the wall. You know what I mean? But I was like, you know what? That fence thing, I’m dumb enough to dig a big hole. I can see most of that. I think I understand what’s going on here. And so fencing, it was there you go.

That’s awesome. And so when was that? When did you start?

This was 2016, September of 16. So we’re at six years and four months ish five months.

So six years we went from you to tell us about the company today.

Oh, man. So six and a half years ago, we sold our first fence. It was this ugly green chain link fence out in Beach Bluff, Tennessee. And I went to this lady’s house and sold this fence. And I couldn’t believe it. She bought it on the spot. I was like, wow. And I remember telling her, lady, hey, look, this one will probably take us two weeks to get to your job. You want to sound busy, right? But honestly, when I said two weeks, I didn’t tell her why, just, hey, I don’t know the next step myself, but I’ll take your deposit check and we’ll figure it out. But I need about two weeks to get to your job, period.

Pure hustle.

Yeah, man.

I love it.

And so we began to subcontract just exactly what I learned from my previous employer, sell it and subcontract it. And because I had that previous employer, I already had a lot of connections, already knew kind of who could do this and who couldn’t do this. And so we began to subcontract. And like, the first five or six jobs that we sold, we subcontracted. And then I began to realize they don’t know what they’re doing. The problem is bigger than what I was seeing at my previous employer. The problem is we really need to bring something better to West Tennessee. This is not just a hustle. This is not just a way to survive. There’s a real market here, and there’s a real need. And I think that if we put our hearts and minds to it, we can fulfill that need. And so we said, hey, look, we’re going to take over the whole operation, the sales, the ordering, the warehousing, the building, the whole nine yards. And to summarize all of that, I said, hey, look, let’s build a company that we’ve always wanted to work for. I’m tired of people lying to me.

I’m tired of people being wrong. I’m tired of people being mediocre and half hearted and just crappy, you know what I mean? Making excuses. I hate that stuff. So let’s just put it all on paper together. Let’s bring in a bunch of people to help us do it, and let’s build something that we want to work for as well. And when I say bringing in a bunch of people, we couldn’t afford anybody. So a bunch of people was just me. I was a sales guy, the builder and all of that, you know?

So it’s not just you anymore, though?

No. We get like 20 people, man. It’s nuts. It’s absolutely, like, stupid.

Now, in your world, that really works out to cruise, right? So how many crews you have going building fences? Every day.

So every day we run four. Four crews every day. These guys are better. They build a fence better than I do. It took a while, but I feel more confident in saying, hey, I’m going to send Core to your house, Kevin. I feel more confident in saying, hey, I’m going to let Mike and his team come out there and handle this because they’re going to do a lot better job than I could ever do. But they show up, man, 20 of them every day, 630 in the morning, and they fight for me, it doesn’t matter if it’s raining, if it’s muddy, if it’s hot, they show up and they fight. And sometimes we fight internally, but it’s because I always say, hey, we love what we’re doing. We all have the same mission, that we want to give the best product that we can possibly give and the best service, and we want to do what he’s efficiently and all this stuff. And when you got everybody that wants to do the absolute best that they can, well, sometimes you have friction. But it’s all about love. Just like when you love your wife, sometimes you argue.

And if you don’t argue with your wife, I say, hey, you’re not really in love, you know what I’m saying? But sometimes we have those bro fights, you know what I mean? But at the end of the day, we always hug it out and we always say, Man, I love you and I appreciate you bringing that to the table. And salespeople my wife by far outsells me and fence. And then we got another guy who works with this, brian by far out sales me. They have patience, they have charisma, they’re smart, they’re good looking, they’re on time. I’m the guy you tell me to be here at 02:00 to a freaking podcast and I’m walking in at 206. Hey, where’s Kevin at? I’m late. I’m not the guy. I’ve had to learn, like, I don’t really know what my role is, Kevin, but I can hype some people up. I think that might be my role, man.

Hype people? Yeah, professional hype, man. You’ve told us a lot about the fence industry and kind of some of the struggles, but what else do we need to know about the fence industry to help us appreciate what Jackson Fence is doing?

Oh, man, I love the fence industry. Like, a whole lot. Like, too much, probably. It’s really not just a job to me. It’s a pretty small industry. So I think, I don’t know, 50 states. I’d say there’s probably 500 to 1000 fence companies in every state. Maybe a little bit more, give or take. But it’s not a huge industry. By no means. It’s not like insurance, where there’s 15 different options.

Hit an insurance agent.

Yeah, exactly. It’s not church, it’s not grocery stores. It’s fence. And we cover bigger areas. We do hard work, we take pride in our work. But the fence industry as a whole, I’m on this whole mindset. Of course I do a podcast. It’s called My Fence Life, and it’s an industry facing podcast, so it’s not even customer specific. And in fact, a lot of the times I hope customers don’t see it. Yeah.

Because you’re talking about the real nitty.

Gritty behind yeah, we’re talking about yeah, what’s really going on, how do we grow our business, how do we scale it, how do we improve profit margins, stuff like that. But it’s reality. Sometimes we think profit margin is a bad word, but it’s not. That’s how we survive. That’s how I can tell you, hey, I’m going to be here in ten years to honor my warranty.

It’s the report card of business.

It is. But that’s the stuff we talk about. It’s not always glamorous or it’s not always marketing, you know what I mean? But it’s fence industry specific. And so what I’ve learned is there’s a lot of fencing has a pretty low barrier to entry, and that’s a big thing. So if you own a pickup truck, you can go to lows, get a postal digger, a hammer and a drill, and then, hey, next thing you know, you got a fence company. Yeah, you can compete with me. And so because there’s a low barrier to entry, what we also see is the fencing industry as a whole is kind of inundated with people who are very talented and good at their craft. Not always, but they need help on. Okay, so we’re building expenses. How do we turn that into a business? And what’s the legal side of this? What’s the accounting side of it? How do we bring people in and make this whole thing go? And I’ve always had a heart for consulting and coaching and stuff like that, so having a podcast talking to fence people is kind of my outlet to connect with other people and not just talk about what I’m doing, but talk about what they’re doing.

And I learned just as much as I give away. Probably way more than I give away, because I’m not that smart, you know what I mean? But I make myself available to people and they call me and they talk to me. They give me their ideas, and then I take their ideas and I make them a little bit better. I plot them to my business.

So the podcast is also a networking tool for you because you have a passion to see more people be better at fencing.

Yeah, exactly. It’s fun too. So on the microphone and talk just like this yeah.

One of the cool things about the world that I’ve realized as I’ve gotten older is everything is a world unto itself. There is a whole universe of fence people that are passionate about fencing, like there is for marketing or football or accounting. I have a style cup here. There’s a whole universe behind the people that make this right. And most of us never see it. But the more you get into it, the more interesting it gets. I think I’m a naturally curious person.

So I guess it could be a Styrofoam cup trade shop. I guarantee there’s a paper products disposable. Paper consumables.

There’s probably a podcast for it too, right?

You’re probably right.

The second half of our interview, View with Cannon Johnson will come out in a few weeks. Stay tuned.

A question we get regularly is should we rebrand? And my first answer to this question is usually no. And now I try to deliver that gently because it’s not what people expect me to say. Don’t get me wrong, rebrands can be fun projects and profitable, but most people don’t think about it the right way. First question we need to explore is are they wanting to simply renovate their logo, change their logo altogether, or change their name and their logo?

Rebranding in people’s minds can mean any of these three things. Of course, branding is way more important than just the logo on your website. But this is what people think of when they say rebrand. So why am I so cautious of a rebrand? Well, there’s three main reasons trust cost, physical cost and promotional costs.

The main purpose of having a consistent brand is to build trust in your current and potential customers. Trust that you are a business to work with, that you will do the job, and that you are safe to do business with. And while this is difficult to measure, when you change your brand, your logo or your name, you are hurting the recognition ability of the current and potential customers in your world. This symbol of your company or this name is what people have grown accustomed to. And if that’s removed, you are losing brand value.

With these folks, this can be difficult to rebuild, but I find people do not really consider the value they will lose on a rebrand. It is difficult to measure, but there are reasons major corporations spend so much money on brand advertising. The second thing I think people should consider is the physical cost of the rebrand. If you go through a logo or a name change, you’re going to have to update many things more than you can think of at this moment. Letterhead, business cards, signage, company culture points.

This stuff adds up when you budget for a name change. Don’t only consider the cost of engaging the agency to help with the design, but also consider the literal physical cost of the change and the timeline that that might add to the project. Regardless of how easy it is to change your Facebook avatar, building exterior signage does not show up overnight and it is not cheap. And finally, some people view a logo or a name change as a reason to do a bunch of promotion. Why?

Well, you have to rebuild the brand trust that you just lost and help educate consumers on the change. But here’s the cold, hard truth while you are excited about your rebrand, the general public probably does not care. Some of your customers might be interested, but largely folks don’t care unless you are changing your ownership or service offerings. That leads me to why might you rebrand? There are several bad reasons to rebrand, but there are some good ones.

Number one, your brand has suffered something tragic and it’s leaving a bad taste in people’s mouths. Maybe your brand or ownership did something really dumb and public like rip off all of your customers in the past. Or you were named with a racially insensitive name. These are good reasons to move to a rebrand. The trust or good feelings you are trying to build are being hurt by your current brand.

If your company heads in a new direction, a really new direction, it might be time for a rebrand in a new direction. I mean, do you change your service listings? Did you make a big pivot? Like, were you a traditional mechanic and now you are a mobile oil change service? Were you making one type of widget?

And now we’re making a very different type of widget. Did ownership change? Did you go from being an independent startup to being part of a bigger corporate structure? But note that some corporations might want to buy a smaller company because of the brand value alone. And sometimes your logo is truly outdated.

Outdated really comes in in two categories in my view. One, your logo was extremely trendy when it came out and each year has its own logo and design trends. If you go too trendy with the logo, you might be looking at something that is outdated. In a few years, this could hurt your brand by making you feel out of touch with the times. The other major category here is that your logo is not usable.

When we mean usable in our current era, your logo has to work in a lot more places than it did ten years ago. Does your logo have something that will work as a favicon in a browser? Will it work on a mobile app? Will it also work on a billboard? The change of placement opportunities have rendered some logo designs obsolete.

Sometimes a whole rebrand of a name and a logo is not necessary because you can fix some of the problems with a few other techniques. Number one, if your company is starting to stray from what you wanted it to instill in its customers, look at your core value and missions. Do they exist? Are you properly leaning on them to run the company? Does the team know if they are important?

This can help make sure that the company backs up the ideals that you are pushing the brand to show. Additionally, can you change how your marketing is being displayed to the outside world? Maybe that involves talking about other components of your business or having more diverse imagery in your marketing, or focusing on company charity work. What if you took the total cost of the rebrand, physical cost, design cost, promotional costs and invested that into the storytelling of the story that you want to be said about your company, or investing it in the community to generate goodwill? If your logo is out of date or unusable, you will want to consider a logo update.

But let’s call it a logo renovation. For this purpose, a logo renovation should keep the core symbolism or elements and put them in a way that works better in our modern era. Keeping essential parts can help retain the trust built with the logo and make it easier moving forward. Finally, make sure your marketing oneliner your short one sentence description of the business lines up with what you want your brand to be. This is far easier to change than a logo and can help the entire company to be rowing in the same direction when they talk about your brand.

I hope you don’t need a rebrand, but hopefully your marketing partner will help you consider whether it is a good idea or not when you call instead of just saying yes. Thank you for listening. If you found this podcast helpful, text it to a friend who might be considering a rebrand.

I think one of the most important books on marketing to be published in the last 20 years is Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller. This is one of my must reads for people and has really helped shape our marketing strategy for our clients since I read it several years ago. So why is that? Well, I think primarily it gives a great framework that helps reorient anyone who wants to market to think about things from a customer’s experience. It is really easy as a marketer or someone trying to sell something, to think about what we want to say.

We have this new feature, or in our instance, we have this new camera or this new design technique, but most people really don’t care. Here are three main takeaways from building a story brand the Hero’s journey, clarity, and implementing the framework. The main focus of building a story brand is the hero’s journey, or as Donald calls it, the story brand framework. We won’t cover it in great detail here. You should really go by the book.

But the summary is this how does our customer move from failure to success in a particular story arc, and how do we help them get there? The entire hero’s journey is shaped around a potential customer and how we can help them get to their intended goal? How do we help them solve their problem? Once you read this book, you will never again see a movie the same way. Nearly every single movie follows the hero’s journey, which means that you will start to see all the key elements in each movie.

The idea of a hero’s journey has been around for a long time and was popularized by the book The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell in 1949. But Donald distilled the idea and modernized it for us. In my perspective, the most important point of the entire book is that the customer is the hero in their own story, and we are there to help them not be the hero, which is flipping our normal thought process on its head. We like to be the hero, not the hero’s helper. One of the enemies that Miller points to is the threat of confusion and marketing.

Our materials should be clear. Audiences should be able to quickly find the next action we want them to take. This is something we work hard with on all of our customers. People sometimes don’t realize how complicated it is to do business with them or to find the information that they’re looking for. We work really hard on our projects to make it as clear as possible what the next steps at any moment are for their customers.

Clarity in this way is very important for inbound marketing or potential customers who are coming to us to do business. But also, do we make it clear what we do? Do we position ourselves specifically for the customer to understand what we do and why we do it. When we first opened, we had too vague of a one line, all things small business marketing. That line positioned us too broadly and set us up to be the hero.

We have refined our oneliner through the framework to Be, leading businesses to conquer digital marketing. With that change, it moved us to a guiding role and specified what areas we like to help with digital marketing when we work on implementing the hero’s journey. Story Brand gives great framework for this journey called the SB Seven Framework. They have great online tools that help you work through the framework@mystorybrand.com, but in short, think about your customer, that customer’s problem and who can help them solve it. But also how can we make sure our message is clear?

And how can we paint a picture of success or failure, keeping in mind how we can communicate the problem we solve as clearly as possible and frequently creating marketing oneliners will cover that Donald Miller is a great communicator and uses that skill to distill these principles into an easy to read book. Since publishing this, he has gone on to create a license for story brand like you can become a certified story brand guide. And his newest endeavor is Business Made Simple. Business made simple is an MBA in a single book. It covers all the aspects on how to run your business and one easy to read book.

Donald comes from a background writing Christian bestsellers, but in his pivot to business writing, he may have found his true calling. You can find links to Donald and a link to buy the book in the show. Notes for this episode. If you found this episode helpful, text it to a friend. Thank you for listening.